How to Find Your People After 50 (And Honor the Friends We’ve Lost)

Why does making friends after 50 feel so unexpectedly difficult? In this episode of Everyone Dies, we explore the reality of our changing social circles as we age. Whether caused by retirement, caregiving, or loss, discovering that your network has shrunk can feel isolating—but you are far from alone. 

We talk about the modern challenges of finding your community later in life, the measurable health risks of chronic loneliness, and how to intentionally take those small steps to build deep trust again.

Every day is a gift. Let’s learn how to find—and keep—our people:  https://bit.ly/3SXGwAe

Special Summer Re-Release: Stick around right after this brief intro for a powerful encore of our classic episode (Season 3, Episode 31) on navigating the profound grief of when life-long friends die. 

Timestamps:

00:00 - Intro: Why is Making Friends after 50 So Hard?
00:56 - The Health Risks of Isolation and Reasons for Shrinking Friend Circles
04:44 - The Power of Intentional Effort
07:31 - S3E31 Intro: Friendship Rewards and Challenges
15:57 - Recipe: Friendship Cake
09:56 - Interview: The Grief and Coping When Your Best Friend Dies
49:48 - Do I Want Another Close Friend?
52:31 - How to Make New Friends
01:02:14 - Outro with Words from Joseph Campbell and Emily Dickenson

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Everyone Dies, the podcast where we talk about serious illness, dying, death, and bereavement. I'm Marianne Matzo, a nurse practitioner, and I used my experience from working as a nurse for 47 years to help answer your questions about what happens at the end of life. We've decided to take a vacation this summer for a few weeks, which we haven't done since we started this podcast.

So today, we offer for your consideration some thoughts about friends, how to make them, how to keep them, and what to do when your social circle has shrunk. And as a bonus, re-release our podcast about when long-term friends die. Making friends after the age of 50 can feel unexpectedly difficult.

Many adults discover that the friendships they once depended on change gradually over time because of retirement, caregiving responsibilities, divorce, relocation, illness, or death. Researchers now describe this growing social disconnection as part of a larger friendship recession, where adults report having fewer close relationships than previous generations. Loneliness and social isolation are not simply an emotional issue.

They come with measurable health consequences. Research reports that loneliness and social isolation are associated with increased risk of heart disease, depression, anxiety, cognitive decline, and poorer overall health outcomes. Social connection is not simply a personality preference.

Researchers increasingly describe it as an important component of healthy aging. Current research also suggests that adults experiencing chronic loneliness may have significantly higher risks, stroke, and disability. One reason friendship becomes harder later in life is that people lose the built-in environments that once created connection automatically.

School, workplaces, parenting activities, and neighborhoods used to be a place where people could repeatedly talk to others without much effort. Many adults must actively create opportunities for connection now because previous opportunities no longer exist. Older adults are particularly vulnerable because social connections often shrink during major life transitions.

Research on older adults consistently show that retirement, bereavement, health problems, and mobility changes can reduce opportunities for meaningful social interaction. Older adults who participate in volunteer activities, educational programs, exercise groups, or faith communities report stronger social networks and lower levels of loneliness. Shared experiences create familiarity, trust, and emotional safety, all of which are necessary for friendship development.

Another challenge is emotional caution. By 50, many people have experienced disappointment, betrayal, grief, estrangement, or emotional exhaustion, making them more hesitant to trust new people. Adults often become more selective about who they allow into their lives, which can be healthy in some situations but isolating in others.

Many people fear rejection, awkwardness, or becoming emotionally vulnerable again after painful life experiences. Modern friendships also seem to follow somewhat different social rules than it once did. Texting group chats and social media now replace many face-to-face conversation and long phone calls.

Researchers studying modern social connection describe digital communication as creating ambient intimacy where people feel connected through constant online contact, even though they rarely spend time together in person. At the same time, there is a greater cultural emphasis on boundaries and emotional self-protection. Many adults are trying to avoid emotionally draining or one-sided relationships which can be healthy and necessary.

However, friendship still requires vulnerability, patience, forgiveness, and the willingness to tolerate occasional inconvenience or disappointment. Research continues to suggest that meaningful friendships are strongly associated with better emotional health and overall life satisfaction. A 2025 World Happiness Report analysis found that social connection remains one of the strongest contributors to happiness and emotional well-being across age groups.

Strong social relationships help reduce stress, improve resilience, and support healthier aging. Adults often assume that friendships should happen naturally if the connection is meant to be real. In truth, friendship at this stage of life usually requires intentional effort and repeated interaction.

Someone typically has to make the first move by extending an invitation, joining a group, or continuing to show up consistently for trust to develop gradually. Experts on aging and friendship recommend focusing on shared activities rather than trying to force emotional closeness immediately. Volunteer organizations, walking groups, continuing education classes, fitness programs, faith communities, hobby clubs, and community events create repeated contact that helps familiarity and trust develop over time.

Community involvement and shared interests are important pathways toward reducing loneliness and increasing well-being. Another part of adult friendship is learning how to be a good friend during emotionally demanding years. Adults are balancing caregiving, financial stress, health concerns, grief, and exhaustion.

Being a good friend during this stage of life often means offering flexibility, understanding, reliability, and emotional presence. Feeling emotionally understood is often more important than maintaining a large circle of acquaintances. Being a good friend includes listening carefully, respecting privacy, checking in during difficult times, and allowing others to speak honestly without judgment.

Research by Kanan suggests emotionally supportive friendships appear to strengthen self-esteem and reduce feelings of loneliness over time. Adults may worry that they are too old to build meaningful new friendships. Studies on aging and social connection by Hogan Friends suggest that adults can form emotionally significant relationships throughout adulthood, particularly when they remain socially engaged and open to new experiences.

Loneliness may be common, but it does not have to become permanent. Often the first step toward connection is very small, sending a text message, accepting an invitation, joining a class, attending a meeting, or introducing yourself to someone new. Most meaningful friendships begin gradually through repeated ordinary moments rather than instant emotional closeness.

We never outgrow the need for connection and for a best friend. People want to feel seen, valued, remembered, and emotionally safe regardless of age. Adult friendships may require more courage and intentionality than it once did, but meaningful connections are possible throughout life.

Now stay tuned for a rebroadcast of Season 3, Episode 31, where we talk about friendship, particularly making new friends after the death of a best friend. We'd have an interview with Chris, a woman coping with the death of her best friend since third grade. This podcast does not provide medical advice.

Please listen to the complete disclosure at the end of the recording. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Everyone Dies, the podcast where we talk about serious illness, dying, death, and bereavement. I'm Marian Matzo, a nurse practitioner, and I'm going to use my experience from working as a nurse for 44 years to help answer your questions about what happens at the end of life.

And I'm Charlie Navarette, an actor in New York City, here to listen to answers, then ask questions, or something like that. I have no idea. We are both here because we believe that the more you know before a crisis hits, the better prepared you will be to make difficult decisions.

So please relax and get yourself something charmingly fabulous to snack and sip on, and thank you for spending the next hour with Charlie and me as we talk about the death of our friends and how to cope with this loss. In the first half, I have a recipe for friendship cake that you can make for your next funeral lunch. In the second half, I interviewed Chris R., in which we talked about coping with the death of her best friend, whom she had known since third grade.

And in the third half, Charlie tells us how to make friends. So Charlie, what have we known? I met you when I was 21 years old. When I was 21, it was... Oh, I'm sorry.

Yes. This is 44 years. Been a while.

So do you have any friends that you've had friends for that long with? That was in really bad English, but you get Chris. That PhD didn't go to waste on you, none. No.

In terms of maintaining that friendship, no. I mean, there's people I know longer than you, but I've been spoken to. 40 years.

Gee, literally decades. I was going to say years. No, decades.

Why don't you stay in touch with them? I don't like them. No. Basically, because people change.

Oh, so you literally don't like them. And it's not liking, but people change and you either tend to move on, at least in my experience, you move on, you find other interests. As we get older, as we start to age, you don't have... Most people don't have the same thoughts they did 40 years ago.

Politics change, thinking about politics or the environment. So what's the secret to our 44 year ride? Every time I wouldn't answer your phone calls or then later emails, I don't know, you just kept after me. It's absolutely not true.

Liar. I don't know. There was just, or there is just some connection, a spark, like a favorite.

And I mean this in the nicest way. You have a favorite sweater, something that makes you feel comfortable and cozy. It's that.

I don't know of any other better way to say it. We have disagreed over the years. Sometimes we had not talked for a while, but then we would just basically pick up where we had left off, let's say like eight months before.

And there's no one else I've consistently done that with. And as I've gotten older, we change. So a lot of people that I've been close to for a long time, the thing about people drifting apart, things change and you move on.

Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes you're like a brother, sometimes you're like a husband, but without the sex, which I guess in some marriages is like a husband.

I don't know. We've just been like down every road with our kids. I was going to say many, many paths.

It's like if you needed directions to Chung's or, oh my God, Michael's been shot. It feels like I'm the first person you call. You don't notice that? Or is that not true? No, I don't notice it.

I guess just because I'm trying to say I don't think of you, it's because when I say I don't think of it, I just do it without thinking. That's what I'm trying to say. I just do it without thinking, because it's you.

It's like your parents being sick or your dad falling or any, it's like, here's what I need to know. Yeah. And then when I die or as I'm dying, I'm assuming I'm going to be the first in my, among my siblings to go.

I better be. I can't imagine losing any of my siblings. I've had two of my siblings die.

It sucks. It really sucks. I know.

I can't. Yeah. It was one thing with my parents.

Yeah. I don't even want to think about it. But yeah, the four of us are on board of what we want.

And when we die, any others will support that. But also you are on that list. Somebody will call you and say- I thought I was on the pull the plug list.

Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah.

That's what I mean. You're on the list. Yeah.

I don't want to miss that. Yeah. You say that with just a bit too much enthusiasm in your voice.

Yeah. You got probably quite a few women in your life who are like in line. Is he still breathing? Okay.

Okay. So I understand he's still breathing, but how is he breathing? I mean, we don't want him to suffer. Where's that plug by the way? Yes.

So thank you for your enthusiasm. Because I love you, Charlie. And speaking of love, our recipe this week is for friendship cake, which is made with a starter that you nurtured for weeks prior to baking this cake.

And about 30 years ago, somebody gave me this little jar. I was like, would you like a little jar of this starter? And here's the recipe. And it's really not that hard.

And I spent weeks stirring and adding sugar and whatever. It was like, this is really a big commitment. So just so that you know it, you can get this starter, you can divide the starter to share with your friend or with your enemy if they hate to bake and nurture things.

This recipe is for responsible people. So it's not to kill the starter. But I got to tell you, the cake that comes out of it is fantastic.

Okay. So okay, friendship cake, okay. Made with a starter.

I'm sorry, what exactly is a starter? So you have to look at the recipe to get a starter of like, it's sugar and water and- A starter pistol? A fruit juice or that kind of thing. So that it'll ferment and it'll grow. And every three days or something, you add, I don't know, a quarter cup or half a cup or something of sugar to it and you stir it.

And after three weeks, it's fermented. And then you add different kinds of fruit and flour and all that and you make a cake. But you only use like a third of the starter to make the cake.

So either you make three cakes, and I guess you could give a cake to a friend, or you can take a third of it and give the starter to a friend. And then they can go through that three-week process of nurturing it and baking a cake. It's like a pyramid scheme, only with cake.

I see. Okay. Either just to go to a bakery or something.

You know, it doesn't have that friendship aspect to it if you just go to a bakery. I see. Well, Bud, if you know folks, go to our webpage and shake hands with this recipe.

Plus check out- how about that for a segue? So, yeah, so please shake hands with the Friendship Recipe. Plus check out additional resources for this program. We hope you will be best friends with us and follow us on Facebook and Instagram.

And remember to rate and review this podcast, folks. We have a link in our show notes that makes rating our podcast easy, and that would be very helpful to us. Okay, so the secret's out now.

We are a licensed non-profit organization dependent on your kindness. We always appreciate your tax-deductible donations. Many of you have let us know that our podcasts, especially Marianne's expertise in plain English about dying, have been of help to you.

So, if you can spare a couple of bucks, please go to our webpage to donate so that we can continue to provide quality shows about serious illness, dying, death, and bereavement at www.everyonedies.org. That's every, the number one dies.org. And speaking of Marianne, what do you got next? Well, so this week we're going to talk about friendship. And Chris had written to me and said that her best friend that she's known since third grade, so 50 years, had died recently from Alzheimer's disease. And Chris was there with her and held her hand and played her favorite music.

But Chris is in her 60s. She's like, I don't know what to do now. You know, I've got my husband, I've got my child, but I don't have my best friend anymore.

And I don't know how to handle this. So take a listen to our interview. Today I'm going to be talking about, I guess maybe the theme would be grief and loss as it relates to a lifelong friend.

Now, you know, when we're young and we have our best friend, it's like, you know, they're everything to us. And as we get older, some of those best friends do get to stay with us. They stay with us throughout our whole life.

And when it comes to a point where they get sick and they die, it's like a piece of yourself is lost. So today we're going to be talking with Chris Rector. Chris' best friend was Kathy, and Kathy died last year.

So Chris, welcome to our show. And thank you for talking with us. Thank you for giving me the opportunity.

So tell us about Kathy. Kathy was the most amazing best friend we met when we moved to the same hood in third grade. And when she passed away last year, that would have made over 60 years of friendship.

Neither of us ever moved away from our hometown for more than a year or two out of all that time. So we have stayed close, raised children together, and she was just very special. So tell me, tell me like your favorite memory about Kathy.

My favorite memory is how much she loved Christmas. She was like a clone in a good way of Martha Stewart. And so she had like this whole village of porcelain, you know, Christmas stuff that she put out.

She had three major size trees in her house and would entertain. Her husband owned his own business, and she would just do this elegant entertaining all the time. And we did exchange gifts at our birthdays.

My birthday is Christmas, so I could never hardly wait to go to her home and, you know, see all of her Christmas and, you know, exchange our gifts. So that's got to be the highlight. Yeah.

Wow. And so did you guys go to college together? Did you go to different schools? Yeah. After we graduated high school, she graduated one year ahead of me.

Her mom was an RN with a lot of responsibility at a local hospital. So she and her sister both went into nursing. And so she, you know, she got her bachelor's degree and then supported her husband through his medical school as a nurse.

And that was one of the few times they were away from Modesto. But then they came back and we both had our first two children at almost the same time. And then I'm not sure what happened with me, but I ended up with the third one, which is great.

But I mean, we had so many parallels in our life because then the children ended up being on some of the same sports teams, definitely at the same high schools. You know, it just was something we enjoyed forever. And then the best part, the grandchildren came about for her a little sooner than me, but I'd say at the time she passed, her oldest of four grandchildren was still only about 14.

Yeah. Oh, so young. Yeah.

And my two grandchildren were a little younger, but you know, it's like just whenever I'd see her, she'd whip out the grandma brag book, you know, out of her purse every time. And I think that's the first clue I knew when something was a little bit different about her because that was something that was missing when we got together. So anyway, not to get ahead of myself.

Yeah. So how old was she when she got sick? Well, when I started noticing those symptoms and it was officially diagnosed as early onset Alzheimer's disease, I believe she was about 64 and she passed away five years later. That's when I noticed it as a friend.

What kind of symptoms was she having? Well, the forgetfulness type of thing, you know, we had already got together for my birthday and she called up and she goes, hey, this is your birthday month. Let's have lunch or certain things like that, you know, nothing. And then we had the same person that we went to as a hairdresser.

And that lady would mention to me, Chris, have you noticed such and such about Kathy or have you been in touch with her? You know, just the kind of thing that caring mutual friends do. And I was also in one ladies group once a month with her. And so, you know, different people see different things, but because they're concerned, you know, and I'd say to them, well, mention it to her husband, you know, and he was still at the time working.

And so, you know, eventually he asked me to come over and he goes, please help me with Kathy. And I said to him, I will come and help you to see where she's at if you need extra help, but I can't come and help you physically with her on her day-to-day care because I'm doing my own business and because I have my daughter that needs me all the time. And he kind of knew that.

I think he was a little lost and hopeful. And so I did. I went over and just used my cell phone and kind of wrote down notes as we were talking about what happened with her for about six, eight hours one day in her own home.

And based on some of that, he knew, and of course, what he already knew, he was able to get someone to come and stay in the home for a while. But then after that, she just didn't want to be there. It wasn't okay at home.

You know, folks listening who've had Alzheimer's have, you know, had the moment where you had to say you can't drive anymore or, you know, just certain things for their own safety. And that's pretty much the same evolution that happened with Kathy. So once she wasn't safe to stay at home anymore, did she go into a nursing home? She did.

She went into a place right here in Modesto. Well, first, she and her husband sold a home they had that was a little bit outlying and came very close to where his place of work was and also a place that was only one story because she had fallen and, you know, caused some more physical issues. And also that was just more secure in terms of her being able to not leave on her own and stuff.

And she spent about a year there and then went to the level you mentioned where she had to go into a memory, they call it memory care facility. And that was for probably about 16 months where she passed away. Wow.

Now, you have a daughter who has cerebral palsy, right? And so she requires a lot of care from you. How much care, how much time were you able to just spend with Kathy? Well, you know, I think it was a time management issue. When I did go out for my session at Curve's ladies exercise, then I would call and say, can I stop by? And the person who was with her at home would tell me whether or not it was a good time to stop by or not.

And my visits to her would more or less depend on what Kathy's mood was and as it started to really decline, you know. So, I wouldn't visit her as often as we used to get together beforehand, but as often as I could and to be perfectly honest, it was really hard to go visit her to see these changes come about and to see how her grown children and husband, you know, how it was affecting them. But I think every time I said to myself, I don't know if this is going to be the last time she recognizes me and I don't want it to be and I'll only know that when I go there and she doesn't recognize me.

Yeah. Did she recognize you to the end? Almost. I know she knew it when she was passing away and her spirit was leaving her.

I know she did because she took my, I was holding her hand and she squeezed my hand, you know, and she was long, she had not been able to verbalize for probably 10 days or something, but I just had her music that I knew she loved and was just talking. They're very old times. She really, really enjoyed talking a lot more and I would try to bring her pictures of things we did as young married people and even back talking about memories of when we were children together and that seemed to be the most soothing thing for her and it really was soothing to me too.

Yeah. So you've really, even though she died in 2019, you went through that slow death that comes with Alzheimer's and that in terms of being able to support each other and talk about problems and share your life, it was a while before that even that you've lost her. Yes, as a, with the same rapport that we had, yeah, for many years, many years before that and you know, I went over one time and her husband, I saw their wedding album right there on the table of her favorite chair and I said, oh, you guys are looking at that and then later as I was leaving, her husband took me aside and he said, you know, I need to remind her that I am not her father or she's calling me by her brother's name, but that I am her husband, you know, and so those, when I would come home, my husband who was also her friend, you know, would ask me, how's Elvin doing and about my friend and, you know, I would tell him and he would just, you know, kind of be honest with me and say, well, you're seeing the pattern here and, you know, visit her as often as you can while you can and that was very good advice because I think passing away at 69 is pretty young.

It's very young, isn't it? Yeah. And also to not remember, you know, people and, you know, events and all the things that I think sometimes we take for granted, you know, until you've been around somebody with Alzheimer's, you forget what, or forget, but don't really realize what it is not to have those memories. Yeah.

Yeah. It was about my second experience with it, but the other person wasn't as close in my life. So, you know, a little bit familiar with the symptoms, but it just takes it to another level when it's your best friend.

So how have you been coping with this tremendous loss this last year? Well, she didn't have her final services. This actually occurred, she passed on in May and it wasn't until the end of June for her memorial service because she had someone very close in her family that was in China and that was the first time that they could come back. So during those six weeks, I went through a lot of photographs and I called a few of her mutual, no, not mutual, but, you know, some other people I knew from her church and stuff like, and I said, Hey, I want to put together a video presentation, or I mean, what do you call it? Like a PowerPoint presentation of photographs from the years.

And I spoke to her two sons too. And so I was able to put at least poster boards with a lot of these memories at her service, at her church. And that seemed a lot of people when you see yourself with that picture in that memory, whether it was 20 years ago or whatever, then that's some sort of comfort, I think.

And so that made me feel good to do that for her husband and for her two sons. So there was that. And then from then on out, truth be known, her husband got remarried again right away and I haven't had near as much communication with him in the past year.

I think if I called him, I'm sure it would be cordial, but he's kind of started a different life with someone else and that's just a different element of it. That's just not anything that I can really be too concerned about. I have stayed in contact with particularly one son that's out of state.

And I said, you know what? I had these picture boards here. Would you like all these pictures? And he said, oh, I would so love it. I want to show them to my children.

And so I just did that probably... Oh, that's been less than a month ago, less than a month ago. But it gave me an opportunity to pick those picture boards out of, you know, they were just somewhere in the house. I put them all out.

I looked at everything and then sent them. I took pictures of a few of them. And so I still have the memory and sent them off.

So I think anything that reminds you of, reminded me particularly of the good times helps soothe the loss. You know, I can remember probably about eight years ago, my best friend died very suddenly. Her name was also Kathy.

And my daughter who was, I don't know, maybe in sixth or seventh grade, made it her mission to find me a new best friend. And I thought, I mean, I could see it from her point of view, but I don't think she could see it from my point of view. It's like, it's harder when you're older to find that new best friend.

Do you have a new best friend? Actually, I told you I'm in business. I'm called a some-timer now. I can, but I still make sure that I hit the once a year annual goal setting.

And at the beginning of the year after I lost Kathy, I went, when I went to the session, you don't have to say it out loud, but I said, my mission this year is to find somebody new to be close to that's not a family member that can kind of do that. And I understand what you're saying. It doesn't exactly replace, but for me to stand up and say that in front of a whole bunch of other, mostly younger people, I knew I really needed to do something, you know, to kind of get over it.

And God has provided me a couple of people. One gal goes all the way back to high school. I've known her intermittently in my life for a few reasons, but I just reached out to her and she, you know, had recently just lost her husband.

So, you know, she has time. She has a lot more time than I do, but we just make it a point to get together once or twice a month. And when we do say goodbye and Hey, but we had a good time, we always try to pencil in the next time.

That's just been a really big, important thing I've learned in my business training. And, you know, maybe you have to pencil it in eight times before it happens, but at least it doesn't leave your consciousness when you say goodbye and hug. Right.

And I think that what I hear you saying is that you have to make an effort, you know, like if you're our age and your spouse dies, your marriage ends for whatever reason, and you decide you want to date again, or you want to marry again, you've got to really make an effort and you have to really make an effort to find your best friend too. Don't you think? Yeah. Yes.

Yes. I think that's true. I've actually do have another sister and just due to circumstances, we weren't around each other, no discord or anything, but I just saw her out more, you know, and she's responded.

But for a while, like I said, I had to get pretty, pretty isolated and my husband was pretty worried about me, but he's like, oh my goodness, I love you, but I don't know how to fix this. You know, go to the doctor, do something. Right.

At least he did that because he cared. I mean, he could have just ignored me and I never, I would always, I love my family, my kids, everything. I will still continue to do things, but sometimes it's kind of like, hey, did I stop at that last red light? You know, it becomes automatic.

You still do it, but you can't even quite remember the sequence of events. You just went through because your mind is just not really present. So I've had to tell myself many, many times the intentional focus and because there's so many things we can't change.

Right. You know, and, you know, circumstances that are brought to us, you know, all throughout our lives, they're either, either we figure out a way to make it, you know, a gift and something that can bring joy to our lives or we can get just pretty jaded and depressed and sad and isolated. And it sounds to me like as much as you miss Kathy, you've said to yourself, I need adult female companionship.

You know, not that the husband's not good and not the kids aren't good, but you need to have somebody who's a peer that you can talk trash with or go out and eat with or whatever. And I think it's very easy to let that piece go. When you're having a best friend is just, I mean, it's just what we do.

But as we get older, we have to also remember that that's a vital part of our socialization. Yeah. My sister calls it, she has five grandkids or she's had five grandkids for almost 20 years.

And now she even has a great grandchild. And when her husband goes to play golf periodically and none of those have asked her to babysit anybody, she calls it a me day, ME. I'll call her up and say, hey, you want to go out to breakfast? You know, my husband's golfing too.

And she'll go, nope, I'm not going anywhere and doing nothing. It's a me day. And see, that doesn't sound appealing at all to me, but at least she knows what she needs.

That's why I need a bit more time with her, right? Well, or, you know, find out what is she doing during that me day? And it might be that she doesn't, you know, get dressed or, you know, eat Oreos, who knows what she's doing. It's true. It's true.

And that's just the thing. I think one thing that I have learned when I'm older, that best friendship is not based on you like all the same things and or dislike all the same things. It's appreciating the things in common that you have and just saying, let's not talk about money or let's not talk about TV shows or the state of millennials or I don't know, I'm picking it out of the air, but you still have a wonderful time with somebody for a few hours doing something that you both enjoy.

And that's part of what keeps us sane and I think also keeps us from getting too old. You know, physically how old we are, but then there's emotionally how old we are. And you can, you can, you can get into a cycle where because you're so isolated, you don't know what's really going on out in the world and what the issues are for other people.

But, you know, staying connected is a way to stay mentally healthy. That's very true. And, you know, along that line, you brought up my daughter.

My daughter has had, you know, 24-7 needs. She's long out, I can't think of the word, outlasted what the medical predictions were for her. And the best part of that is just what you're saying.

I would have not known all these wonderful, valiant parents and grandparents and adoptive parents who have gone outside of themselves and always feel like it's worth it. But boy, sometimes it spreads you really thin, you know, but if you don't, they say this at my job, if you don't get out of your comfort zone, you're never going to change anything, particularly improvement. You can't improve if you're satisfied with the status quo.

And when, you know, I mean, right after my friend died, I didn't want to hear any of this. I just wanted to mope for a while. And there's a stage to doing that.

But I have had some other losses and I've been lucky enough to have some people in hospice guide, even if it's just through a pamphlet that says, hey, you're not alone in this. But if you keep it to yourself, it might last long. I don't know, everybody's different.

But for me to keep it to myself was not helping me at all. No, and it's good that you know that. And, you know, learning about grief, we have podcasts about grief that, you know, you can listen to and get a sense of, oh, yeah, I'm going through that.

It's good to know I'm not the only one who experiences these things. Because sometimes when we're smack in the middle of it, we feel like, you know, oh my God, there must be something wrong with me that I'm responding this way or that I'm feeling this way. And in fact, it's just part of the process and part of our humanness when people that we love die.

Yeah, for some reason, particularly in our Western culture, we did not revere that the end of life, like we do the beginning of life. And it just is what it is. But it is unfortunate because, I mean, I do believe that there's no doubt in my mind that Kathy was a wonderful person and she will have a wonderful reward in the afterlife.

But that isn't what made me sad. What made me sad is my selfishness or thinking about her kids and grandkids that don't get to have her for another 20, 30 years. You know, so you have to kind of refocus that.

And I'll tell you what, no matter what I've gone through in my life, it doesn't take very long that you talk to another person and you find out that they either have it a harder road to go or they know somebody that does. And perspective has helped me a lot. It really has.

And, you know, I don't think it's selfish to say, you know, it's my selfishness in, you know, her dying, how I'm feeling is that, you know, it's natural to want the people we love to be with us and to continue to make memories. I don't see that as selfishness at all. It's just, it's what we do.

If we like it, we want to keep doing it. And when you have those kinds of relationships, you want to keep them. I'm sorry, go ahead.

It's okay. But one day I had this realization, my dad died of cancer after only a few months and he was only 59. And I was so unprepared in my 30s for that to have happened to him.

So I would say now, you know, so then I started looking, hey, at least I have my mom. I had her for another almost 30 years after that. Now there's a blessing, you know, I mean, my dad had still passed.

That was still not good or that was difficult, but at least I had my mom for a lot longer than that. Some people have lost their parents and that's what I was talking about. You know, you'll talk to someone and go, what's up with you? Well, man, my dad died and I just having a hard time with it.

And they're like, geez, my dad died when I was four. And you're like, holy moly, you know? And that's kind of part of just being part of the human race is somebody else always has something that will contribute if you can hear it, if you can hear it for why it came into your path, you know? And sometimes it's just still really sad. Certain things happen when you've lived in the same town for a long time, you're always going to run into mutual people.

And so you can either take it as a sad memory or you can celebrate what you did together way back when, whether it was silly or serious or whatever. And at the age of 70 that I am, unfortunately, a lot of those are celebrations of life at the end of life. But we all know that those are only, the best part of those is after all of the real serious part has taken place and then you can actually relax and enjoy the memory of the other person.

Sometimes that doesn't even happen right away either. I'm not saying that, but anyway. Well, grief is always hard and loss is always hard.

And I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me and let me know about Kathy and learn about her. And I think to help others, if their family member has Alzheimer's or if they're just at our age and losing their best friends, how do you get through that? And I appreciate your resilience, Chris, with this whole situation. Well, it's been helpful to me very much to talk to you and hopefully something, like you said, somebody will pick up on something that will ease their sorrow and may be able to turn around to helping others, you know, always come back.

Yeah. Okay. I think it will.

So Charlie, one of the things that we struggle with as adults after the death of our friends is what do we do next? Do we approach their death with a philosophy that's better to have loved and lost? Or do we wade back into that friendship pool and look for a new best friend? When my youngest daughter was in eighth grade, my best friend died. She was out working in the garden and went in the house and they found her there. It was, I had this missed call from Kathy and I was in seeing patients and I got in the car and, you know, called her back and she answered and I said, Hey, what's up? And she's, and it wasn't Kathy, it was her daughter.

And she said, Mom's dead. And I said, Kendall, I said, that's not funny. And she said, No, I'm serious.

And I would, I would drop the girls off at school. And then between school and work, call Kathy in the morning and we chat and I don't know, you know, shoot, shoot the whatever. And I mean, she was part of my, my routine.

I've known her since her daughter was like two years old. And I was hit with this, you know, such tremendous loss. My sister had just died and then Kathy and my daughter there's was an eighth grade said, Well, we just have to find you a new best friend.

So we would go to her volleyball games, or we would go here, she'd say, How about that woman? What? She might be a good best friend for you. And I thought, you know, at her age is like having a best friend was really important. And I thought, Do I want another best friend? Like, do I have time for another best friend? Do Is it possible to have another best friend? And, you know, it was really, really difficult kind of thing.

And so I thought it was a good topic for us. And you're a good best friend. So I thought maybe you could tell us about in our old age, should we get another best friend? Well, as we age, making new friends, I mean, can be an uncomfortable, time consuming process.

I mean, especially for older introverts. Going to school, we had a group of kids our own age to make friends with. We, we grew up worked, made work friends married, and even our kids events gave us the opportunity to meet people who could become more than acquaintances.

But the older we get, but the older we get, these natural groups are difficult to find, which is okay when we are busy and still have friends. When they die and are irreplaceable, we often don't have the energy or wherewithal to figure out what to do next. The advice for adults wishing to make friends is often to join a club or maybe find a group of people who are into what you're into.

We have to seek out the grownup equivalent of a sandbox, a place where people are oriented toward making connections. According to the Friendship Report, an international study of friendship, people have an average of four best friends and the average age of meeting their best friend is at age 21. As we get older, people in the US are most likely to have only one best friend.

The basis of intimate friendships is finding people who are like you and bonding over your similarities. Therapist Miriam Kerrmayer explains similarities within groups often exceed any differences between them. Men are becoming more aware of and comfortable with their need for social connection and intimacy within their friendships.

In many cases, it is also increasingly common for men to seek out emotional and physical closeness in their platonic friendships. America has the highest number of older people stating that their best friend is someone of the opposite sex. We see this new type of friendship on TV and in the movies.

People are learning that it's not shameful for a man to be friends with a woman. Melissa Kirsch wrote in her New York Times article that finding the running club or knitting circle is the organizational part of friend-making. The greater challenge is moving through the awkwardness and fears of rejection that we may have thought we left in the high school cafeteria.

Marissa Franco, a psychologist and the author of Platonic, How the Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends, recently mentioned in the Times three theories about the dynamics of meeting new people. 1. The liking gap. We tend to underestimate others' esteem.

When strangers interact, they're usually more liked by the other person than they assume, Dr. Franco said. 2. The acceptance prophecy. When people assume others like them, they tend to become warmer and friendlier, she said, and that leads others to respond warmly in turn.

3. The theory of inferred attraction. People tend to like people who they think like them, so the more you can show people that you like and value them, the better. But even when you address these issues, some people think they have all the friends they need and do not have the time or bandwidth for any more.

Half the struggle is finding someone who wants the same thing as you do, at the same time. Or, according to Miranda on Sex and the City, men are like cabs. They wake up one day and they decide they're ready to settle down, have babies, whatever, and they turn their light on.

In our older age, we may find ourselves looking for a cab with its friendship light on. Besides taking classes of interest to you, going to the gym, walking groups, dance classes, checking out senior planet, or striking up a conversation with people who look interesting, you can use a dating app for friends. Bumble has an option to look for friends rather than romantic partners.

You can set up a profile and meet new people. We would love to hear from you. We would love for you to write to us about making new friends after the death of a friend, or maybe just making friends in general.

So email us at mail at everyone dies dot org. And as always, that's every the number one dies dot org. So did you know, I didn't know that Bumble had like a section just to make friends.

I know that Bumble had bees, but apart from that, no, I have heard of this though. That, you know, it's not always about, you know, romance or hooking up or exchange, but it can be something just people. So I was looking at it.

I was looking at the Bumble app. So there's one like to to meet people for dating or whatever. There's one to make, like professional connections, like to grow your business, that kind of thing.

And there's one to make friends. Yeah. And I didn't go further in terms of, but I assume you set up a profile like you do on a dating app.

But isn't it a curious world that we need an app to make friends? No, I mean, how else are people going to do it? Because sometimes there's just no one around you. I mean, that's been my experience. And, you know, I live in New York City.

So it's not like a small town, but, you know, I've had a lot of acquaintances and friends and clients who just, you know, say, well, you know, I don't know anyone. I don't have any friends. So we just start going down a list.

Well, you know, who do you know, you know, down the hall? I mean, I've just really been surprised over the years how, yeah, people just really don't have anyone in their immediate area. And they're either uncomfortable or nervous about meeting new people. And it's easier, yeah, to be online.

Because, you know, you meet somebody online because they are there for the same reason. But I've even met, you know, people on Facebook that I've never met in person who, you know, like Claire, and, you know, Anita, who we do the grieving squad with, like, I've never physically met them. But we talk about pretty serious things.

And I know about their lives. And I know about their kids and their husbands. And I mean, I've even had other people who, I remember one woman, I've never, again, never met, but just followed my posts and whatever.

And she asked about, like, one of my daughters, she said, so how's our girl doing? And I thought, well, that's interesting that, I mean, that she felt like that sense of intimacy that, you know, that my daughter was our girl. But I don't know, I just think it's fascinating. And I don't know if it's, is it sad, Charlie? I think it's just a reflection of our time.

I mean, we are just surrounded by mass media, social media, media media, and this is just the way people communicate now. It's instantaneous. There's no real time to think or to, I mean, you have to plan to have a cup of coffee.

And maybe I've just lived here for so long because that's, you know, the way it is a lot of times because people are just always running around doing stuff. You know, and to the point about, you know, what, you know, about meeting people and going out and doing things, it's, you know, it's just also important to do stuff for yourself. I mean, sometimes, you know, I'll take a walk and I love architecture, so I will stop and notice a building that maybe I've passed, you know, a dozen times and I just look at it again and suddenly I notice a cornice, you know, some corner, you know, way up that I hadn't noticed before.

And I just soak that in. That nurtures me. You know, I don't need to do anything but just, you know, to take that in.

Yeah, I don't know. I just find that very soothing. And it's nice.

I mean, sometimes you just get into conversations with people. But yeah, you have to put yourself out there. And it's difficult just to put yourself out there.

So, I think, yes, if you just, in the peace and quiet of your home, you meet folks and talk to people online, it's the 21st century. Yeah. So, with that, please stay tuned for the continuing saga of Everyone Dies.

And thank you for listening. Like sand through an hourglass, so are the days of our lives. This is Charlie Navarette.

And from Joseph Campbell, every process involves breaking something up. The earth must be broken up to bring forth life. If the seed does not die, there is no plant.

Bread results from the death of wheat. Life lives on lives. Our own life lives on the acts of other people.

If you are life-worthy, you can take it. And I'm Marian Matzo, and we'll see you next week. Remember the words of Emily Dickinson, My only sketch profile of heaven is a large blue sky, bluer and larger than the biggest I've seen in June.

And in it are my friends, all of them, every one of them. And every day is a gift. This podcast does not provide medical advice.

All discussion on this podcast, such as treatments, dosages, outcomes, charts, patient profiles, advice, messages, and any other discussion are for informational purposes only, and are not a substitute for professional medical advice or treatment. Always seek the advice of your primary care practitioner or other qualified health providers with any questions that you may have regarding your health. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in it because of something you have heard from this podcast.

If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor or 911 immediately. Everyone Dies does not recommend or endorse any specific tests, practitioners, products, procedures, opinions, or other information that may be mentioned in this podcast. Reliance on any information provided in this podcast by persons appearing on this podcast at the invitation of Everyone Dies or by other members is solely at your own risk.