Making the Decision to Euthanize a Pet

When is it time to say goodbye to a pet at end of life? We talk about this agonizing decision in this episode, and give you a quality of life assessment tool in our show notes to help with your decision. Listen to this and more as we also rebroadcast S1E27 about the death of a pet.  https://bit.ly/3BhednU

In this Episode:
00:00 -  How to Decide when it's time to Euthanize a Pet
01:40 - Amy on the Choice to Euthanize Gracie May
03:53 - Intro to S1E27, on the Death of a Pet
05:21 - Southern Comfort Food Classics
14:50 - Charlie Meets Al Pacino on the set of "The Hunters"
24:31 - The Death of a Pet
42:55 - Marley and Me
49:26 - Outro

Transcript

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Making-the-Decision-to-Euthanize-a-Pet

Hello and welcome to Everyone Dies, the podcast where we talk about serious illness, dying, death, and bereavement. I'm Marianne Matzo, nurse practitioner, and I use my experience from working as a nurse for 46 years to help answer your questions about what happens at the end of life. The staff at Everyone Dies are taking a much-needed holiday break.

Today we were publishing our podcast about the death of a pet with new information about making the difficult decision to euthanize a pet. I remember when our Australian shepherd Dimple, you can read some of the blogs about her listing in the resource section, I remember when she turned 15 and we started to see a decline in her activity level. At the time I wondered how you knew when the time had come to euthanize her, you know, put her down, all the words that we use, but figured that we would know it when we saw it.

Over time she became incontinent of urine but surprisingly she didn't mind wearing diapers and was otherwise okay. Then we noticed she was eating less but she would eat treats and she would eat if you kind of like held the food in your hand and sat with her. Eventually she laid down on the floor to eat the little she was eating and had to be carried outside to do her business.

Then one day the robot vacuum was running and instead of Dimple moving out of the way the vacuum cleaned around her entire body like it was an inanimate object. That is what made us say yeah the time had come. I have a writing from Amy, the editor of Peddler's Post, who writes about their decision to euthanize Gracie May, a pitbull mix.

She writes, Thursday I went grocery shopping and the pups were near me when putting the food away. Food was never an issue with Gus and Gracie. They ate next to each other from the first day and every other night since.

In a matter of seconds Gracie was on top of Gus and rushed him 30 feet while biting him again and again before he was able to grab a hold of his collar and let Gus escape. I got the door open and let Gus inside the house and with Gracie lunging at me managed to get myself inside. They had tangled up before but never like this.

I had Gus inside bleeding and Gracie lunging at the door trying to get inside to re-engage in the situation. Gus was absolutely terrified and I was as well. I called Matt to come home and reached out to their vet.

An hour later when the vet called back and before Matt got home, Gracie was still very much engaged and wanting to get into the house and fight. I'd never seen her this out of control. The vet was very aware of the regression of Gracie's aggressive tendencies and sure that she was really scared for our family.

She recommended that it may be best at this time to go ahead and put Gracie down. When Matt got home, Gracie was still very engaged in getting back to the fight. It was like she had something inside her snap.

Matt and I looked at the situation in front of us and in depth and made the tough decision that it would be best for everyone to follow the recommendations of the vet. Do we feel good about the decision? No, we're sad. Are we at peace with the decision? Yes, we are.

When we took on Gracie, we took full responsibility for her. Knowing what she was capable of, there was no option to re-home her or place her back in the shelter system that had already failed her twice before. We deserve safety, but equally important, Gracie may deserve peace.

And now, please listen to our podcast about the death of a pet, which originally aired in September 2020. This podcast does not provide medical advice. Please listen to the complete disclosure at the end of the recording.

Hello, all you cats and kittens. Welcome to Everyone Dies, the podcast. I'm Marianne Matzo.

And I'm Charlie Navarrete. So grab your adult beverage or whatever you feel like drinking. Maybe a cup of tea, some dessert, some dinner, a hot dog.

I don't know. Relax and thank you for spending the next hour with Charlie and I as we have some ideas to serve at a Southern funeral. In the second half, I'm going to be talking about the death of a pet.

And in the third half, Charlie and I will be doing a scene from Marley and Me for our section called Funeral Theater, where we put the fun in funeral. So, Charlie, today we're going to explore part two of our story about food served at a Southern funeral. I mean, yes, we are.

Yes. Last week, we talked about how Southern Living Magazine did a story about classic comfort dishes that you'll see on every Southern funeral spread. So what are you going to tempt us with this week? So I get Popeye's old hat.

So even if I discuss it north of the Mason-Dixon line. So, well, you know, in general, like what we said before, I mean, Southern food is all about providing comfort to those in attendance and, you know, to those not in attendance, you know, honoring, you know, people who have died, who have checked out, who are six feet under, who have 86. Well, you get the gist of it.

Kick the bucket. So we're going to continue our conversation about some more of Southern, you know, comfort classics, comfort dishes that generally you do see at most Southern funerals. So for example, baked macaroni and cheese.

Oh, God, I love that food. And with this, Marianne, I'm sorry, I have to ask you a personal question. With or without? And when I say with or without breadcrumbs? Oh, man, you know what? When I have leftover, like sourdough bread that somebody hasn't eaten in the house.

No, I'm sorry. I have to cut you off right there. No, no, no.

I make it into breadcrumbs and put it in the freezer so that when I make macaroni and cheese, I sprinkle that on top. It is heaven. No, you're wrong.

You know what? I don't know. I just I just grew up with without that. Even simple macaroni and cheese from a box, which doesn't compare to homemade.

They didn't have boxes of macaroni and cheese when you were a kid. You're too freaking old. That's not true.

When did? Yes, it is. Really? No. Really? Yes.

If my mom made macaroni and cheese, it was with a box of macaroni and. When I was 17. What kind of cheese did your mom use? Whatever was on sale.

My mom used Velveeta. I was. Because that melted the best.

Not Velveeta. No? No, I'm going to. You know, I don't.

I'd have to ask my sister. I'm going to guess it was cheddar. It was something yellow.

Velveeta is yellow. Yes, but I know it wasn't Velveeta. This is sacrilege to say, but I've never been a fan of Velveeta.

And I don't remember my mom ever cooking with Velveeta. All the best cheese and tomato sandwiches with Velveeta? No. Come on, you haven't lived.

Okay, well, wait a minute. So did your mom use breadcrumbs on the macaroni and cheese? I don't think she did. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't remember. But I do. Yeah, I don't remember when this phenomena came into existence.

Because if you can add carbs to carbs. Yeah. It just makes it that much better.

You know what? I don't know. I'm assuming there's a certain type of breadcrumb which does not taste grainy. Because for me, every time I've had macaroni and cheese with breadcrumbs, people just grind these breadcrumbs down to their molecular level.

It's just too grainy. I want to taste the cheese mixed in with the pasta. And for me, that graininess from breadcrumbs just takes it away.

Takes that away. You're like the princess and the pea. You can feel the pea.

And you can feel the graininess. You are just a delicate flower, Charles. That's true.

Ask what everyone says of me. I'm a delicate flower. Thank you very much.

So macaroni and cheese. With or without. Where am I? Yeah, yeah.

And really the gist of it with or without breadcrumbs. It's macaroni and cheese. It's creamy.

It's cheesy. Or if you prefer, it's cheesy, it's creamy. It's macaroni-y.

Macaroni-y. You know, it's macaroni and cheese. And you can't go wrong.

You can't. Well, unless you have breadcrumbs. Another southern delicate.

This I've never had. Ham biscuits. Um, so basically you have your basic homemade biscuits.

Though I'm sure maybe sometimes they're out of a can or something. But homemade biscuits. What? In the south? Out of a can? Well, well, you know, sometimes maybe.

Go sufflagelate. I mean, what the heck are you talking about? Folks are in a hurry or something. Nobody's in that much of a hurry.

Okay, well, uh, okay. I guess I've been in the north too long. Okay, so let me back.

Let me backtrack, please. So homemade biscuits. Right.

With ham. So you have to take a porky out from the barn because you want everything fresh. If you're going to have fresh biscuits, you need fresh pork.

So you take porky out of, well, I didn't mean to go into detail how, where the ham comes from. Well, it comes from the smokehouse that's already done all that other stuff. So yeah.

So, um, basically ham and biscuits. I mean, that's it. It's, it's fresh.

It's homemade. It's just, um, I mean, it sounds simple, but then on top of it, you can put any, anything you want. Peanut butter, jelly.

I would, on top of the ham, I would probably put bacon. I'm, I'm just, I'm just that kind of a guy that, you know, many times more is better. Well, absolutely.

If you're gonna, if it's worth doing, Charlie, it's worth overdoing. That's true. And if, you know, if you're going to have a bacon with the ham, you better have some butter on that biscuit too.

Oh, without saying. Just, just add to the glory. Yes.

You have a hot biscuit, you know, I, I don't think there's even purgatory for people who don't put butter on that. And you know, there's just something, well, you know, sometimes people have honey, use honey on it. I, it's okay, but yeah, there's just something about a hot biscuit.

There's not enough fat in honey. There's not. There's just something about a hot biscuit with butter.

That's just a little cold, but still spreadable. And that just melts. And it just, just the whole combo just melts in your mouth.

It's heaven. Yeah. Yeah.

So there we are, uh, ham biscuits. And you know, the other thing that was, uh, in the, what they were talking about, I am, I'm okay. It's called chicken spaghetti casserole.

Now, doesn't that just kind of blow your mind in a lot of different ways? Yeah. None of them positive. The, um, but the idea of a casserole, you know, in the South and the North, it doesn't matter where, but in the South, I mean, is that idea that you can just take a whole bunch of different ingredients? It doesn't have to be chicken, but just anything you throw it in a casserole and you, but you do have to have a touch, a taste for, you know, how much cheese to add.

If you want to throw in pasta, of course, butter, um, some folks, uh, like it hot. And so, you know, a dash. That'd be a good movie.

I know. Should I know? Tell somebody, um, imagine the cast. The, um, you know, a little spicy.

But if you're going to make a chicken, if you're going to make a chicken spaghetti casserole, you gotta have spaghetti. I can't, I can't, I can't put those two words together. Chicken casserole or chicken spaghetti.

Sorry. Chicken spaghetti. But, um, if, if you want to.

Well, you've had, you've had chicken parmesan. Isn't that always served over spaghetti or some sort of pasta? All right. So, so here we go again with my taste buds.

Um, I, I don't like chicken parm. I know. So what is it? Are you, are you a purist or what's, what's the problem? Well, no, uh, I don't know.

It just, to me it's, it's a strange combination. However, shrimp parm. I, I don't know why I, I don't care.

The only like Parmesan type topping covering the thingamajiggy, um, shrimp. But like, but like. I love eggplant parm.

I was going to say, um, yeah, most, most people I know love eggplant parmesan. A lot of, you know, different types of Parmesan. I don't know.

I'm just, I've never, yeah. Sounds like a therapy issue. Uh, yes.

What's Rodney Dangerfield? Oh, Dr. Vinny Zumba. No, Vinny. I'll have to look that up.

Yes. Rodney Dangerfield, therapist, psychiatrist. Um, oh, but getting back to it.

Yeah. So with a casserole and, you know, that's, um. Yeah, you can follow a recipe, but following a recipe for something like this is no good.

But in the South, they, they just know a little dash of this, a shake of that, just enough to put in to enhance the flavor. You know, in this case, you know, chicken spaghetti, but, you know, if you have beef or veal, pork, I don't know, people just have that talent, that gift of just knowing what to add and how much to add. See, I just clean out the fridge and make a casserole and voila.

There we are. I just, I just, I just pick up the phone and order it. And so there we are.

I mean, just, you know, a few more examples of what folks cook in the South for a funeral. Yeah, it is about, I mean, food is comfort. And at a time like that, people want to be comforted.

People want comfort. Yeah, food is comfort, even if it's not at a funeral. So all of these recipes, you can find on our, well, I was going to say, you can find on our website, everyonedies.org. And how does, how is that spelled, everyonedies.org? It's E-V-E-R-Y, the number one, dies.org. Got it.

And we hope you folks will send us your own recipes to share with others. In addition to that, we appreciate your questions, jokes, and anything else you want to tell us. Mostly.

You can email us at everyonedies.org. Again, every, the number one, dies.org. And please join our Facebook group, Everyone Dies. And also, please remember to rate our, rate and review this podcast. Molly, our fabulous Twitter wench, is hoping you contribute to her self-actualization by following us on Twitter and reposting her tweets.

So you know what I heard the other day? The original Beatle version? No, that was without a guitar accompaniment. No, actually, I have no idea. That Carole Baskin from Tiger King, or as Tiger King calls her, that bitch Carole Baskin, but I'm not calling her that, I'm just saying that's what he calls her, that she was going to be on Dancing with the Stars.

Dancing with what? You know what I think would be really cool? Is if they got the Tiger King out of jail and put the two of them together and they could do a jungle kind of theme dance, you know? Like Tarzan, Jane, or, you know. I thought you were going to say, you know, her and, I don't know, a real-life tiger, but I think just a Tiger King would be enough. Well, a real-life tiger, I mean, I don't know how well they could learn all the choreography.

I don't either, but you know, if they'd get like frustrated or hungry, you know, they'd be all set. Yeah, right? And so the other thing I want to tell you is I started this Netflix series that within the first five minutes I was totally addicted to. Have you seen The Hunters? Oh, yes.

Yes, I have. Are you in it? You're in it, aren't you? Well, yes and no. Yes, I filmed the likely scene with, yes.

Yes, but the scene I filmed was pretty much cut. Pretty much? Or are you there a little bit? I'm there a little bit. What episode? Oh, poo.

Six, seven, I would have to find it. It's something like episode six or seven. What were you doing? I was, so it's a wedding reception.

Oh, where the daughter gets married? The daughter of, what's your name? Carolyn. Yeah, Carol Kane and Paul. Carol Kane.

And sorry, Saul Rudnick. Very nice guy. We had a very nice chat too.

So, yeah, basically, yeah, so it's at the reception. And what are you doing? I don't know why, but they put me at the bar and I'm having a drink. So, so I'm sitting there.

Go back and look for it. Well, you're not going to find it. So I'm sitting there, you know, having a drink.

I get up and I run into my old friend, Al Pacino. So, yeah, I thought I told you that. Sorry.

No, you did not. Oh, I just want our listeners to know that nine times out of 10, I'm watching something and then I say, oh my God, there's Charlie. Literally, just like that, because he doesn't tell me what he's in.

It's I'm I'm very shy. So, so I know I need to. OK, so anyway, in this in this scene with Pacino, actually got to talk to Pacino.

Oh, it was it was baby. It was more than talk. So he you know, the assistant director introduces us.

He puts his hand up. Very nice man. And he says, hi, I'm Al.

And I looked at him, I said, Al. OK, I think I'll remember that. And he started to laugh.

That was a good sign. I said, Charlie, and just, you know, so what are we going to do here? And I'm thinking Al Pacino is asking me for professional advice. OK, I said, I don't know.

Let's say, you know, obviously, you know, we're old pals, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So we came up with a scenario. And basically, that that was it.

So it's you know, I'm walking from the bar. I run to I run to Al, you know, we make up a little thing and he notices out of the corner of his eye, the guy he's waiting to talk to, you know, says goodbye. I walk away.

He goes his way. Um, it was. I had to calm down because all I kept thinking was, OK, this is Al Pacino.

It's he smiled at me. I made him laugh. This is Al Pacino.

It took a couple of takes for me to get that out of my head because I realized I'm not focusing on the moment. So when I finally got it out of my head. Um, the director said, we have enough take.

So so we're good. Al, you can go back to one. And I said, Charlie.

Yeah, thanks. Nice job. And there we are.

So I waited for the you know, for the episode to come out. Finally saw it. No scene.

It just shows Al going to the person he, you know, he was there to see. So they don't even show you at the bar or anything? Nothing. Nothing, honey.

Oh, so I don't. So I didn't miss you. You just weren't there.

Well, I just want our I want our listeners to know that I didn't know any of this. But I am truly obsessed with watching this thing. You know, the last two nights, you know, you know, it's been renewed.

Well, I haven't I'm not through the first season yet. Oh, okay. But just to throw it out for anyone who doesn't know, it's been renewed.

I'm not going to say anything else, because those of you who've seen it might be wondering how or why. But you'll you'll Yeah, it's enjoyable. It did.

Have you watched the whole thing? Yes. So do you know what I mean? By the first five minutes, you're like, holy crap, what just happened? Yeah, and then you then you're hooked. But I was talking with David about this, because he was diving this weekend.

And I've been like binge watching the show. And he said, Well, but, you know, there really was this. Yeah, yeah.

Effort to bring Nazis into this country for their intellect, and that we are on the moon because of a Nazi. We're no one brought. Absolutely.

Yep. So there was a piece of history I knew nothing about. And I always feel so so stupid when I'm like, you know, 63 years old, and I'm finally learning like pieces of history that somehow have eluded me my whole life, like with where the heck have I been? Um, I don't think there's anything stupid as long as you know, just we learn at different times.

Did you know about that before you did that thing with Al? With the Nazi things? Yes. I knew more about von Braun because I was I in my childhood dream was to become an astronaut. So but yeah, the whole thing.

Yeah. And it just also to that, you know, you know, New York was was part of that. And it was just also interesting to see how they dress the streets and places and made it look really sleazy.

1970s New York City. You know what the thing I one of the things I really noticed was the scenes on the subway, how filthy dirty papers and stuff. Wow, it doesn't I mean, you don't.

I mean, you know, it's not that way now. But when you see it, how it was, then you're like, Oh, yeah, that really was a mess. Oh, yeah.

I visited here a lot of the 80s that there's no exaggeration about that. It was. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, anyway, I just want to tell people that that is really wonderful. And it's probably because I'm delaying having to talk about our second half, Death of a Pet.

And you know, of all the podcasts that I've written, I think this is like our 31st one or something. This was really hard for me to kind of write. And I think in in a great part is that we have a what is she 14 year old Australian shepherd named Dimple Rose, who, you know, their lifespan is like nine or 10 years.

So I've been doing palliative care on her and pain management so she can still run with us. And recreational eating, which, you know, we've talked about another podcast and really optimizing the end of her life. And I think because I've always been one of these people who like go six steps ahead.

So I think about, you know, I'm just going to really miss this puppy. Yeah. So in writing this, it was like, you know, this forced me to think about it.

So let's talk about the death of animals. Pets are our family. You know, they represent love and acceptance.

And when I have two daughters, they're 14 months apart, 13 and a half months apart. And when they were in high school, which anybody who has daughters knows that that's just a hell time. And especially if you're the mom, you know, like I'd be going to a volleyball game.

My daughter played volleyball and she'd say, well, let me see what you're going to wear. I just, it was just, you know. Pretend you just want to pinch them.

Yeah. It was just a hard time. And I decided I was going to get a dog.

And I got this dog on Craigslist. It was part Lab, part Border Collie. And the girls were like, why are you getting a dog? I said, because I want someone to be happy to see me when I come home.

And they looked at me and rolled their eyes and went about their lives. But it was true. It's like when you, you know, like when, I don't want to say they picked on me, but when everyone's picking on you, you want someone who's just going to look you in the eyes and just say, you know, if they could talk, I just love you.

Because that's what I think he would say if he could talk. Yeah. Unconditional love.

Yes. Yeah. Relationships with our pets is simple.

It's simpler than relationships that we have with people. There's no conflicts over politics or religion or what we're going to have for dinner. Pets are non-judgmental.

Like you said, there's unconditional love. They are happy because we're there. You know, like with Harley, you'd let him in one door, let him out one door, and a minute later, let him in another door.

And he would be so darn happy to see you. He would be like, you know, it's been two seconds. But every time he saw you was like the first time.

They don't care if we shower, if we stay in our pajamas all day. They just like the fact that we're there. When they die, though, we feel that acute loss that really does deserve acknowledgement.

But typically, this loss ends up being what's called disenfranchised grief for the human. Now, disenfranchised grief is any grief that's not acknowledged or validated by social norms. So often you hear about disenfranchised grief like if you're a woman and you're having an affair with a married man and that man dies.

Well, you're grieving the loss of that relationship and that man's death, but you can't go to the funeral. You can't go to the funeral home. Nobody's going to say, oh, I'm so sorry, your lover is dead.

They'll say, well, you shouldn't have been dealing with a married man. It's true, you know, sometimes in same sex relationships, you can be living as man and wife, maybe you haven't gotten married, or not man and wife, but wife and wife, husband and husband, and you might not have gotten married, but that person's death is can go unacknowledged. It's not considered to be the same.

So that's what disenfranchised grief is. But that's also true with pets. You know, it's like, well, my dog died, my cat died.

It's like, yeah, so it's a dog. Go get another one. But if you've had that pet for 14 years, it's not just a piece of furniture.

It's not just, oh, let's go get another one. Because those animals have their own personality. You know, even if it's, you know, it's their personality, plus it's like whatever we layer on top of them, like with Dimple, you know, I speak for her quite frequently, and she's always telling somebody to, you know, go take a leap or whatever.

She's very sassy in the things that she says to David primarily. And, you know, it's that, you know, we've given her a personality. We've given her her humanness, in addition to what she has of her own.

So the grief, this disenfranchised grief is often minimized. And it's not understood by other people, especially when they don't have pets, or they don't know what that relationship's like. And it's hard to process, and it's hard to work through.

And if you can't do that, then it's going to make it really difficult to fully grieve that pet. Like if nobody's acknowledging, this is really sad, this is really hard, your dog died, then how is it that you are able to grieve? You know, NASA Society, I mean, we know this during this show, we don't like to talk about death. And the death of a pet can be even more minimized because, hey, this isn't something I want to talk about anyway, let alone your darn dog.

We might be told by people, just get another pet and move on, you know, go to the ASPCA, get yourself a dog or whatever. Yeah, people minimize your grief because it's, quote, just a dog. Yeah, right.

Or just a cat or whatever. So we have to grieve that loss. I was talking to my brother, he turned 70 this year, and I said something about his dog, Peaches.

He says, oh, you know, Peaches died a few years ago. I said, oh, did you get another dog? And he said, nope. He said, I've got to wait until I'm old enough that I'll die before my dog does, because I don't want to go through that again.

Wow. And I said, wow, that's, I mean, that's profound if you think about it. So it is, yeah.

He really hurt. And I said, you know, I'm the younger sister. So I said, well, you're 70 now.

Most dogs, you know, live 10, 15 years. I said, I think you're safe to get one now. He truly did not appreciate that comment.

But, you know, what can I tell you? The death of a pet can hurt as much or more than the death of a family member. Sure. There was a study in the New England, you know, in the Journal of Mental Health Counseling that asked a group of dog owners to place symbols for their family members and pets in a circle.

So what you do is you draw a circle, which is you, and you put the people and your pets, you know, into the circle. And the distance between the subjects and the person and the other symbols correspond to relative real-life closeness of relationships. And I've done this with patients, like, when they say, well, I don't know who I can count on.

It's like, well, let's draw a circle. Put yourself in the center. Where do you put the different people? Where do you put, like, in my case with people, with counseling people, it's like, who are the people you can count on for different things? And where are they in your circle? This one was looking to see, well, where do the pets go? The people tended to put the dog closer than their average family member and about as close as the closest family member.

In 38% of the cases, the dog was closest of all. I'm not surprised. So research comparing grief over the death of pets to that over the death of friends and family members has come up with different answers.

There was an article in the journal Society and Animals that reviewed multiple studies found that the death of a companion animal can be just as devastating as the loss of a human significant other. Not quite as severe, but more intense, or at least the same. Now, I was reading an essay by Joe Yonan in the Washington Post, and he's talking about the death of his dog.

And he said that there are, you know, there's so many rituals that we have with our pets. So he was talking about over the course of 13 years, the same thing would happen with Gromit, his dog, every morning. He says, I would sit on my bed to put on my shoes, and he would drape himself across my lap.

I would scratch his butt, and he would reward me with a big sloppy kiss. Recently, I did the math. Accounting for the times I was traveling without him, this interaction happened more than 4,000 times.

It makes sense that when he died, it was months before I could touch my shoelaces without expecting also touch from him. I had no idea what to do with my mornings without my pooch to require that small gesture from me. And, you know, think about, you know, we can all think about the things that are, you know, part of our rituals with our pets, and what a tremendous loss it is when they're no longer there to share that with.

Now, some people feel surprised and even shame that they're grieving more for their pet than maybe they did for a sibling or for a parent. But when they realize that the difference is that the pet gave them constant companionship, that there was total dependency, they can begin to realize why they're grieving so intensely. So what are some of the things that help? First, start with acknowledgement.

Think about of your loss exactly the same way you would as any significant loss. Pay attention to how you're feeling and validate for yourself that you're experiencing an incredible loss. Because you see people say, oh yeah, my dog died last night, you know.

And somehow I'll stop and say, oh my God, what happened? And they seem almost surprised that someone's taking the time to talk with them about that. And I've always been one to send sympathy cards. I mean, long before they made sympathy cards for when your pet has died, I'd always send sympathy cards to my friends because that's a significant loss.

Second, realize that grief has its own timeframe and that everyone's timeframe is unique. So you can go back to our podcast on everyonedies.org and listen to the grief podcast because that applies in this case also. There's also the Traumatic Grief podcast which applies if your pet is hit by a car or something sudden and traumatic happens to it.

Right, right. My kids were, oh my, geez, what was it? Six years ago or so, we had this little teeny weeny chihuahua. She was little.

Her name was Lily and she was laying on the porch in the sun and this dog just attacked her out of nowhere. And shook her to death. And she died in Julie's arms.

And we reported and went through all that, but we buried Lily in the backyard and put a little statue over her grave site because the girls always called her the squirrel because she kind of looked like a squirrel. So I had this little squirrel statue to memorialize her. Well, recently, just a couple of days ago, I sold the house and the girls were there as we were frantically packing, doing last minute packing.

And Rose goes out to the pet cemetery and takes the squirrel and says to Julie, you should take this. And we're all looking at it, I was like covered in ants. I said, nobody's taking that, Rose, go put it back.

She says, well, if I'm putting it back, then we have to go together and say a few words for Lily. So this is 23 and 24 year old women we go out to the pet cemetery, put the squirrel back down and reminisce about Lily. So these rituals are important.

These deaths are important. And it's not just about, you know, putting the bird in a shoe box and burying it. It's, you know, talking about that pet, talking about her death, even if it's talking about how weird she was, whatever it is, is, you know, making that memory and saying goodbye and saying thank you.

If you're experiencing grief, remember that nothing will be gained by pressuring yourself to get over it. Instead, the healing process takes time. You'll always tell stories about what your pet did.

Let yourself experience that range of emotion. Keep up with healthy daily routines and be gentle with yourself when things are difficult. When a pet dies, there are many people in your life who are not going to understand your grief.

Some people have never experienced a deep connection with an animal, making it hard for them to empathize with those who deeply grieve the loss of a pet. Find someone who understands your experience and talk to them. And mourn your pet.

Have a memorial service or a funeral. Let people see your grief so that they can be supportive of you. Honor your pet for all that they gave you and memorialize them when they die.

Another thing that might be interesting for you to do is listen to our radio show that we're going to put out this week on Passionate World Talk Radio where I interview Lucy Morgan Stern, a pet doula. Now, a pet doula supports people and pets in that last chapter of their life. She offers a lot of insight into this honoring of your pet after their death.

So if you click on radio shows on our webpage, Everyone Dies, you can look for the interview that we did with Lucy Morgan Stern. I found it just fascinating talking to Lucy. She's an incredible woman.

Yeah, she really is. So we have some resources on our webpage that you can look at and that might be helpful to you. And there's a documentary there about Lucy Morgan Stern and a New York Times article about Lucy and some other articles that might be helpful to you.

Have you ever had a pet die, Charlie? Yes, we didn't have any pets growing up. My mom was just not a fan of pets. But when I got married, my ex, she always wanted a dog.

So we got a dog. And so, yeah, for like, what? Like 16, 17 years. Yeah, there was always a dog in the house.

And when Michael was born, I mean, he just grew up from the start with a dog. I mean, he's, I mean, you know, eventually he and his girlfriend got a dog of their own, which did not amuse his mother because he didn't mention it to her. She walked in the door one day.

It's like, why is there another dog here? So, yeah. That's what kids do. Yeah, crazy kids.

So, so that. But no, I mean, I've never gone out and actually bought a pet. But yeah, for like the last, what, 20, 15 years, 25 years, you know, been around pets.

Yeah. You know, and with that, too, what you were saying about, you know, people need to learn to grieve their own way. Also, too, some, like you said, you know, sometimes well-meaning people, you know, but other times people can be, what's the word I'm looking for that I can say on the radio? Well, OK, let's just say insensitive.

You know, people sometimes just want to tell you how you should be grieving also. Yeah, don't, don't let them. It's, it's your grief.

You, you grieve the way you need to grieve. You do, you're a girl. Yeah, you, you go girl.

Yes. Yeah. So for our third half, we're going to do Funeral Theater, which is always a fun event.

And this is a scene from Marley and Me. I don't know if you've read the book or seen the movie. Charlie's going to give us a synopsis, but the dog, Marley, let me just say, is a yellow lab.

And yellow labs are the nuttiest kinds of dogs you can have. They're kind of yahoos. They have lots of energy.

And just, if, if Dennis the Menace was a dog, he'd be a yellow lab. OK. So, Marley and Me.

I'm sure a lot of you have seen the movie, but basically, this couple after, after their wedding, they're both newspaper writers. John and Jennifer Grogan. They moved to Florida.

So basically, they don't want to quite have a child now. Well, she does more than, than John does. But in an effort to, you know, push back her biological clock, John gives her a puppy.

And the puppy, named Marley, grows into a 100-pound dog, but loses none of his puppy energy or rambunctiousness. And in the meantime, additionally, he has no self-discipline or is not able to, you know, learn, you know, to be disciplined. So, you know, Marley's antics and craziness give John rich material for his newspaper column.

As the Grogan's mature and have children, Marley continues to just test everyone's patience by acting like the world's most impulsive dog. And that's basically, you know, the background of all this. So what's happened is, you know, you see Marley as a puppy, and the scene that we're going to do is very much right at the end of the movie.

As with, you know, pets and people, everyone dies. And so this is at the end of the film, Marley reaches the end of his life. And Charlie's going to play John the whole time.

And I'm going to be everybody else. So this is when multiple personalities come in handy. Yes.

And Marley has no lines. So it's just... Okay. So you ready, Charlie? Yep.

Let's rock and roll. Okay. I can't get him to come back inside.

He's just laying out there in the cold and he won't move. Dr. Platt said if he's comfortable, leave him for a while and see, but he's just not getting better. All right.

I'm going to take him in. I'm going to take him into the doctor, and they're going to try to make him feel better. Oh, it's all right, Marley.

You're going to be okay. You can take Lambie, but don't chew off her other ear. Okay.

Goodbye. So in the next scene... Hi. Hi.

Hey, it's me. So it's his stomach again. And they could do surgery, but... I know.

You want me to come down there? No, no, no, no. I think it's a good idea to stay with the kids and be with them. I'm just going to go... I love you, John.

I love you, too. In the next scene, talking to Marley, look what I've got for you. Remember this? What did Colleen say to you? You remember that? You remember chewing up that ear? Well, it's tough to remember all the things you've chewed up, isn't it? It all starts to kind of run together.

It's okay. It's okay. You don't have to do anything.

You don't have your usual energy. You remember how we were always saying, what a pain you are, that you're the world's worst dog? Hey, don't believe it. Don't believe any of it for a minute.

Because, you know, we couldn't find a better dog. You know what made you such a great dog? Is you loved us every day, no matter what. That's an amazing thing.

You know how much we love you? Love you so much. I love you more than anything. I don't know exactly where we go from here.

But I want you to remember, you're a great dog, Marley. You're a great dog. You won't feel this.

You'll just slip away. You ready? Yeah, we're ready. A dog has no use for fancy cars, or big homes, or designer clothes.

A waterlogged stick will do just fine. A dog doesn't care if you're rich or poor, clever or dumb, smart or dumb. Give him your heart and he'll give you his.

How many people can you say that about? How many people can make you feel rare and pure and special? How many people can make you feel extraordinary? Scene. You can watch the scene. We're going to put the link with this podcast so you can watch the actual scene if you dare.

If you dare. So, thank you all for listening. Please stay tuned for future episodes of Everyone Dies.

Our thanks to our executive producer, retired Major General David, our producer Sandy, John, our technical advisor, Molly, our Twitter correspondent, and our friends, family, and loyal listeners who are supporting our work at Everyone Dies. This is Charlie Navarette. And I'm Marianne Matzo, and we look forward to talking with you soon.

Remember, every day is a gift. This podcast does not provide medical advice. All discussion on this podcast, such as treatments, dosages, outcomes, charts, patient profiles, advice, messages, and any other discussion are for informational purposes only, and are not a substitute for professional medical advice or treatment.

Always seek the advice of your primary care practitioner or other qualified health providers with any questions that you may have regarding your health. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard from this podcast. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your doctor or 911 immediately.

Everyone Dies does not recommend or endorse any specific tests, practitioners, products, procedures, opinions, or other information that may be mentioned in this podcast. Reliance on any information provided in this podcast by persons appearing on this podcast at the invitation of Everyone Dies or by other members is solely at your own risk.